Submitted by Indy

Senna, a stalker and obsessive bully, deserves the unkind words she gets as a result of all her flames and tantrums.

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Have you ever had problems with stupid flamers who started fights by saying the most provoking, offensive things imaginable, then whining that you are at fault when you fight back? Have they been trying to get you to shut up while insisting it's their right and theirs alone to hold an opinion? Have you ever had someone so obsessed with you, and hating you that they stalk you on the net and follow you from site to site, message board to message board, mailing list to mailing list just to keep throwing their insane insults at you?

Senna AKA Silver Sloth, Tora-chan, Jenny-Ko, Zoisite, Komadori Frost, Kaishusha...is one of these. She's all wacked out because Sylke wrote fanfiction about Treize Khushrenada, a character from Gundam Wing. But Sylke writes Treize paired up with her original character, and that just makes Senna go absolutely crazy with jealousy and hatred.

Senna thinks Treize should be with lady Une or with Senna herself. Like her enemy and fellow Mary Sue, Senna has such a terrible obsession for Treize, a two-dimentional cartoon character, that she gets jealous when anybody writes him differently from her, and has him falling for some other woman instead of Senna or her idol Lady Une. even though Une has split personalities, an ego the size of Texas, and she is a slap-happy domineering tyrant who is pathetically clingy to Treize, and jealous of Treize's friendship with Zechs. Senna would rather see Treize together with Zechs, another guy, than with any other woman; to Senna, pairing Treize with any female who isn't Lady Une is a crime punishable by eternal flames! Senna is an ego junky. She needs to flame Sylke to make herself feel good, and, she's desperate for attention and admiration. She thinks knowing a little Latin makes her a well rounded person and that she is the guru of creative writing. She also worships the Hamgod. Senna uses various aliases and email addresses to try hiding her identity to flame Sylke, and make it look like a lot of people are doing it.

Such people need to get a grip, but they won't as long as getting attention or rather, putting down others to build themselves up is their first priority. All they manage to accomplish is to expose themselves in all their stupidity.

Senna's first silly guestbook entry:

"Date May 29, 2001
Name Senna Marie
Email caritasvamp19@aol.com
City New York
State New York
Country U.S.
Comments I feel sick...and it's not just the cheese i ate."

Comment from Indy: Really into the cheese thang, aren't ya? I thought dairy was supposed to be evil according to your silly monkeythong hamgod cult so why were you eating cheese? Do I detect a double standard here or just weakness on your part? If you claim the object of your disgusting agenda that doubles as both an obssessive, pathological hate campaign and gigantic attention-grab, has a right to her own opinion, why harass her? Oh, because you're a bloody hypocrite, a liar and a coward...

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-As if flaming in a guestbook wasn't enough, Senna sent her an idiotic blathering email.

"From: CaritasVamp19@aol.com
Date: Tue May 29, 2001 5:34 pm
Subject: Your Web site
To:

i have a few things to ask you.

1)do you smoke the white clouds of opium or any other such hallucinatory
substance?

Indy: What an idiot! You don't smoke the clouds of anything, you smoke the joint, the cigarette, cigar, pipe, whatever. The cloud is what results. DUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH, Senna!! Bwahahahahahahaha! Maybe someone oughta send her some paint chips to eat! And now back to my original comments to this.) Just because that's first and foremost in your mind which means you probably do, doesn't mean everybody you hate, does as well.

--

Senna:
2)do you wish you were Black Sylke?

Indy: Do you wish you were a monkey thong?????????? Do you wish you were your avatar, or Lady Une? Well, ask a stupid question...

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Senna:
3)why is being a Mary Sue soooooo incredibly special?

Indy: You should know, since you're the biggest one on the net...So why is being a Senna Marie or a (choke cough) Lady Une sooooooooooooooooo incredibly special?????????? Ever thought of different people liking different things? Get over it little girl...

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Senna:
4)why do you have such a big hard on for lady une?

Indy: why is it that you're such a perv and you think everybody's infatuated and should worship your stupid sadistic terrorist Lady Une? If you're the type of fan she attracts and if she's as crappy as you make her out to be then let them take her to the junkyard and melt her down to plastic mush. She'd be put to better use that way and so would you since you wouldn't have your lady love to oggle over.

--

Senna:
it'd be just great if you responded to those for me, thanks. no, i do not use capitalization when writing."

Indy: you know what that makes you? Sloppy and lazy. And one who has no business picking apart the writing of anybody else. Until you can write absolutely perfectly, with no typos, no incorrect spelling, and most of all, write content that 1. is interesting, and an impossibility for you, and 2. Doesn't bash Sylke or anyone else on your hate list, you're a hypocrite.

--

More guestbook crap

"name: Some person
-Senna again
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comments: So my comments were completely BRAINLESS! They were supposed to be!

Indy: I was unable to decide if you were really this stupid or trying to win the contest for acting stupid. I'd have to conclude it's a bit of both.

--

Senna:
Oh, but that you for giving us such publicity. Many more people have ventured
to our site in the last twelve days...you have been a very big help.

Indy: It's 'thank you' not 'that you'. And thank you, for admitting you're an attention-seeking brat who only wants the infantile ego-swell of crowing about how many people actually clicked on your crummy page. Can you say "viral" and "chain letter?"

--

Senna:
I wanted to email you and apologize for my rude comments but seems you blocked
me. Come to think of it I would have blocked me too...anyway, if it bothers you
that much I'll take down the mary sue drivel.
time: 2001-06-08 16:12:39"

Indy: Yeah, right. What an idiot.

--

Senna Marie and Lady Une, of the badly named site Monkey Thong foamed at the mouth and spewed forth:

Senna:
"It's Lady's job to say which ones should die and NAME them,but I'm merely
complaining, not pointing fingers."

Indy: Oh? is she some sort of net goddess who decides who lives and who dies on the net? Is this...Lady...going to nuke everyone who ever wrote a character she and her followers dislike? Or is this just a poor attempt at net-policing? Have you and your...friend...Lady...thought of creating your own little fantasy world where you can shut yourselves out from all you dislike and write your own way? It's very easy to do if you know how to create a mailing list, and set it to not excepting new members...Problem solved...No original characters to cramp your uh, style...

Senna:
"All Mary Sues have traumatic childhoods or no recollection of their childhood."

Indy: Just like many other fantasy characters, original or otherwise... So what?

"This means that the author doesn't want to bother with it or has writer's
block."

Indy: Ohhhhhhh.terrible! How very terrible! What a crime!!! how dare they get writers' block or not want to write 13 chapters on the formative years of a character? Shameful, shameful! Tsk...tsk...tsk...tsk... My goodness, that's the absolute end!!!

Senna:
"There are three types of Mary Sues. They vary in name, look, rank, and
occupation, but they all have the same personality."

Indy: WRONG...You contradict that statement big time in your descriptions of the three types of mary Sue's. You are wrong about the number as well, there are a heck of a lot more than three types of Mary Sues. You are among them and the worst offender...

Senna:
"Mary Sue dies in the arms of one true love"

Indy: That's a common situation in ancient or classic literature.

Senna:
"or she marries them."

Indy: Another classic lit situation, and an improvement to the first if it's a classic romance. I'm not much for romance stories...

Senna:
"Her one true love ends up killing the person they were originally paired with
in the series."

Indy: Lover kills first girlfriend to be with Mary Sue? Gosh, that certainly isn't
very civilized. Or is it, lover kills Mary Sue's first boyfriend? Still not
civilized. Sounds just like something you'd do...

Senna:
"Usually. Or they become best friends with the person that their one true love
was paired with in the series."

Indy: They become buddies with their lover's first girlfriend? Hmmmm. Again, sounds like something you'd do...

Senna:
"But I'm getting away with myself. Mary Sue, Type 1: Everyone loves this Mary
Sue. She has looks, brains, and a sweet disposition."

Indy: Would it be better if she was as ugly as a slug with the disposition of a torked off hornet? Well that would certainly make things interesting anyway.

Senna:
"People can't stop killing themselves over her. They also can't seem to stop
saving her from imminent danger. She tends to be an engineer, a scientist, or a
doctor. A non- threatening, helpful job.

Indy: Hey, at least she's got a useful vocation. That is well accepted for women these days, after all. Maybe you're the type who believes in women being barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, hmm? Unless of course it's your...lady...friend...Une... She just gets to be a professional slapper, thug, whatever...And if this Mary Sue 1 as you call her, didn't have a nice disposition I doubt anyone would want to help her out of any danger. or is it that you would rather she got out of it herself? Yes, I agree. A woman does not need powerful men to get her out of scrapes. Well, if you don't want people making assumptions about you, be careful how and where you rant.

Senna:
"When the hero wakes up, she's nearby, cooking soup, pulling out bandages, or by
the bed, wiping the sweat off their tired brow. She is of course, flawless."

Indy: So she shows some kindness. Is that a sin now too? Does *that* make her flawless? Of course not. Doiiiiiiiiiiii!

Senna:
"Mary Sue, Type 2: She's beautiful. She's powerful. She's got the looks, the
pretty face, the intelligence to blow someone off their butt,"

Indy: Damn! How awful! A woman with power and intelligence! Personally IMO far too much attention goes to looks, I'm tired of the Barbie doll supermodel thing myself. See how weak this rant is? You're creaming yourself trying to expound on your hatred and you come off looking like a complete idiot!

Senna:
"and she's P-E-R-F-E-C-T!"

Indy: Wrong! A character that does the following is far from perfect. Gold-digging hussy comes to mind with this description.

Senna:
"She also can't seem to stop sleeping with people, discarding romances, breaking
people up with no concern or feeling, and starting foundations in the memory of
their long, lost, *dead* love."

Indy: What love? This personality type isn't capable of love. The perfect example of a sleezy and manipulative spoiled brat, definitely, but otherwise not perfect. Dangerous, prone to mess up the lives of those around her. Like in that Phil Collins song "invisible Touch" The exact opposite of the first Mary Sue type you describe. So there is a contrast, yet you claim they all have the same personality. you also claim they all die or marry their lover, yet you describe this second Mary Sue as a person completely devoid of all love and conscience. So, which is it? Do *all* Mary Sues have the *same* personality or not?

Senna:
"This Mary Sue also believes that all the guys in the world are straight. No man
that's attractive in the girl's life is gay."

Indy: So? Not everyone necessarily meets a gay in their lifetime. Not everybody writes gays into everything. It isn't against the law to write stories without gays in them. Big fat hairy deal. Get over it.

Senna:
"They also can't keep their hands off her. They never have girlfriends and are
always, always, always available JUST FOR HER. She also tends to break up life
long friendships because she's just soooo beautiful that everyone has to have
her. Mary Sue, Type 2 also tends to be best friends with the people that would,
in any normal situation kill her."

Indy: As I said, this profile sounds like the most imperfect, biggest brat ever and cannot fall into the Mary Sue category if what you said about Mary Sue's in general in the above before M'S'1's description is to hold any weight. This girl falls into the hellchild category in my opinion.

(Revision here: She does in fact, fall into the Mary Sue category, she's a Mary Sue of Mary Sues. The Senna Marie, to be exact. Or if she's under age, the Lavender, after a particularly evil child Mary Sue in an altogether unrelated fanbase.)

Senna:
"Mary Sue, Type 3: HELP!!!!! Damsel in distress, big time here. Mary Sue Type 1
can save herself from most situations, the bigger ones require help. Mary Sue
Type 3 cries when she breaks a nail. She cries if she's pregnant, or if she's
not. She weeps if the test has two blue lines and she can't decipher which one
means yes or no. She bawls when the drug store closes on Sunday. She blubbers
when her true love has to go out of town for a few days on business. Type 3 is a
Cinderella story. She is very talented and beautiful but doesn't know it. She
meets a sexy, influential man who helps her with her problems and makes her
realize how special she really, really is. No one knows why. Or she gets adopted
by extremely wealthy, powerful people with connections. Once again, no one knows
why. They just do it. For no reason. Scary."

Indy: So? you got a problem with the klinically depressed getting help from other people? Would you rather she died in the gutter with condoms and needles all around her, lying in a pool of blood because no one bothered?? Oh, but this is you, of course you would...

I'll agree that the getting into a rich family scenario does get tiring. I'd like to see more of these cases getting into middle-class families where they can learn to stand on their own and gro stronger in personality, without the risk of becoming pampered or mobbed rich celebrities.

Senna:
"My Favorite Mary Sue Story Excerpts...
Removed in fear of authors. Especially Black Sylke...I quiver to cogitate of what
she'd do if she found that *beautiful* excerpt about"

Indy: 'Cogitate'? The rest of that is bull designed to make you look like a victim. You only come off a simpering wuss with no backbone and no conscience, just like every other bad critic.

And who's crying over spilled milk now, eh? Quivering indeed. Toughen up. It's not like anybody is going to send a boogyman after you and finish you off in the middle of the night because you didn't like something they wrote. But then again if you're assuming every other writer/rpger has the same penchant for delivering death threats as you and your...friend...Une...I suppose that explains your rather...paranoied tendencies.

Senna:
"Lady Une slapping (Black Sylke...ooooohhhhh, special. I love it when Lady Une slaps
anyone..."

Indy: Whether they deserve it or not, I suppose. you just like your...Une...to go slapping other characters around...How utterly charming...She sounds a lot like your Mary Sue 2 personality and deserves to be taken over someone else's knee herself if she has nothing better to do than slapping other characters around senselessly. I know of some characters who would take her down several notches and put her in her place but good before she knew what hit her. And you can include me among them. I'd love nothing better than to tear her limb from limb right before your eyes, then have you for dessert.

And by the by, how is her name pronounced anyway. 'Yoony'? 'Yunny'? 'Unny'? 'Yunn'? 'Yune'? or just 'Oon'? Lol. Since it's the feminine version of 'one' in French, 'Oon' comes about as close to it as possible. She's supposed to be number 1 - please...if she's anything in the series like the nasty impression I'm getting just from you, calling her number 1 is a joke! I also noticed that Treize is 'thirteen' in French. Well, I don't get this numbers thing to be honest. But consider this. if thirteen is so often considered unlucky, Treize would definitely be that, getting stiffed with your precious...(hehehehehehe)...Lady...Une. You know, if I thought there was anything likable about this, er, Lady...(snicker) Une...I might eventually warm up to her name, but as it stands now, it's about the dumbest name I've ever heard for a character.

Senna:
"anyway, Sylke's entitled to her opinion and I respect her right to have an
opinion, plus she's older and probably wiser than me too."

Indy: Liar!You know nothing about respect, you don't believe she's got a right to her own opinion, you don't believe she's wiser than you, and your harassment of her makes you a liar, a hypocrite, and a coward.

So why the turn-around? First you say she should die, then you say she's got a right to her opinion, so, which is it? Or are you just weaseling out of the death threat you eluded to with your...Une...thang...earlier? (Rivision: Sylke is older than Senna, yes...Wiser? NOOOOOOOO! Not by a long shot! Those two have so much in common with their raging hormones, the hots for cartoon characters, and their stupid jealousies over them, and both are obsessively hateful. I learned that bit by bit as the flame war went on.)

Senna:
"I just think that Treize and Lady Une"

Indy: If she can actually be called a...lady...What with all the slapping you'd have her do, I'd call her a shrew..

"are "soul mates"...but enough cheesiness......"

Indy: Soulmates? *Rolling eyes* That's cheesy off the charts! Stinky cheese too. I mean, who believes this soulmate crap? I can't imagine anybody wanting to be committed to that predator! Oh, but Treize is just as bad as Une, so yeah, they make a fine rotten pair...

I'd like to point out that what I said in the above in defense of the Mary Sue, I no longer subscribe to.

It is classic lit for girls to die and leave a grieving lover behind, or to marry.

it isn't classic any more when someone comes along, makes up this idealized version of herself, writes some fantasy about her and this crush, whether it's a movie character or whatever, for the sake of - getting together with that character and glorifying herself in this supposedly idealized version and living out her hot fantasies vicariously through her character. It gets particularly ridiculous if the male movie/series character the Mary Sue has the hots for, gets turned into a drippy, droney, simpering sap all because of this wondergirl that blows into his life like some sort of pheromone hurricane, turning his personality to mush. Not that the crush in question this time, had anything in the way of good personality or attractiveness to begin with.

I didn't yet understand that Mary Sues often messed with canon character pairings or tended to be so annoying. I only knew that a Mary Sue was a type of original character, I didn't understand the concept nearly as well back then. If I had, and I knew about all the raunchy, deviant stuff Sylke was into, I would've just walked on by instead of trying to help her. At first, I thought she was just another writer of an original character getting unfairly harassed by some low-life, no-talent writer-wannabe. I was wrong, she wasn't as innocent as all that, but, I was and am still right on about Senna, the flamer or flamers, however many of them there were, being no-talent, low-life, writer-wannabes.